How would you describe yourself in three words?

A rules girl. I do the rules. I wrote the rules. I don't chase men.

What do you go to for inspiration when you're writing?

I like reading real news stories about dating. My co-author Ellen and I also do consultations with clients and we get inspiration from their questions.

Can you tell me a little bit about your co-author? What's she like and how is the working process with her?

Well, we've been friends for 40 years, so we were friends before we wrote the first book and the other, we have a total of six books. We talk every day. We're best friends and we collaborate on social media, on book ideas, on consultations. We're like Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, a dynamic duo.

How important is self-love to you and why?

Well, it's really important because if you don't love yourself, even if you find a man that loves you, you're always going to feel insecure and doubt. Loving yourself means that you do esteemable things. It's not just a feeling. Like, some people think, oh, I'm just going to write I love myself on a mirror. Loving yourself is an action. If I love myself, then I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to eat well, I'm going to be nice to people.

How do you recharge personally when you're kind of just drained?

Well, I haven't had caffeine in about 25 years. So, I eat very healthy and I exercise. I take a nap in the afternoon. I talk to Ellen and other friends. I practice creative thinking.

Do you ever find it hard or struggle to take your own advice?

I used to, but I've been married for 30 years. So, if I tell a married client to be nice to her husband or not nag, then I feel like I need to do what I say. You know, if I tell a friend, why don't you go exercise? I exercise. I try not to suggest anything that I don't do myself. You know, getting older, you realize that you can't be a hypocrite. You say it, you gotta do it.

How would you like to be remembered?

As someone who's helpful. Our books are in 27 countries, so we have women all over the world that want help with dating and marriage. So, I would like to be thought of as being helpful to them, helpful to my daughter. I have a 27-year-old daughter. Helpful to friends, just helpful, period.

Why is helping people with relationships so important to you?

I feel like I was born with it. I remember giving my mother marriage advice when I was a little kid. It's like I always wanted people to get along, and I always wanted to help people with

relationships, and now it's the same way. It's sort of like our calling. There's nothing else we'd rather do.

What is your research process like for your books?

We do consultations every day, so we talk to single and married women every day about their problems. And, from that, we've learned what the issues are, what the confusion is, what needs to be written about. So, I research by working with clients and reading about real-life relationships, in the news or celebrity relationships. Ellen and I both love analyzing celebrity relationships and relationships in movies. Is it the rules? Is it not the rules? What did she do wrong? What could she have done better? So, we're sort of like sociologists in that way.

How does your most recent book, The Rules Handbook, relate to your first book?

It's a modern version. The first book was 25 plus years ago. So, a lot has changed. We have social media now. We have texting. It's a new generation. Also, it's rules for everyone. You know, in the beginning, it was just rules for dating. And now we see you can do the rules in your marriage and with friends, family, bosses, or co-workers.

How have your life experiences contributed to your writing?

Well, I was single and dating from 21 to 34. So, the good 13 years I was out there, going to singles events, going on dates. I lived it and I saw what worked and what didn't work. And now, being married for 30 years, I know what works in marriage and what doesn't work. I write what I know.

What kind of audience are you trying to reach?

We write for women. We don't believe that men read relationship books. So, it's for women looking for relationships, whether it's a friendship or dating or marriage. Looking for relationships where you don't get hurt, where you feel wanted, which means letting other people pursue you.

Can you share a reader testimonial about your work?

We have had many clients who got married over the last 27 years. They say it's life changing. We have success stories from women around the world, even some have become dating coaches.

 

When did you know this book needed to be written?

I think it was a few years ago when we noticed that social media has made dating completely crazy. I mean, women are following guys on Instagram. They're spilling their guts online.

They're being a complete open book. And for dating to work, there needs to be mystery and courtship. So we realized that with a new generation that maybe didn't read the first book 27 years ago, every woman is looking for answers with dating and marriage and other people in their lives.

Also, there's so much bad advice out there. Many life coaches tell women to just do whatever they feel like. Or they tell people to confront a guy. A rules girl, if she doesn't hear from a guy, next, it means he doesn't like her.

Is this book about loving yourself, loving others, or is it about both?

It's loving yourself and then only loving those who love you. We're not trying to make a guy who doesn't want us, who never calls, who doesn't ask us out, to like us. We're not magicians. We're not trying to make people that don't naturally like us to like us. Only hang out or talk to people that want you. Whether it's guys or family or friends, you don't want to be struggling to make people like you.

This helps you be your higher self. All of us have a lower self that's jealous and needy and desperate and clingy. Our higher self is patient and kind and busy and not demanding other people behave a certain way or, you know. Higher self is just the best version of yourself.

There’s a lot of relationship advice out there, so how do you stand out among other authors?

We think we’re unique because there's no other book that says you have to wait a certain amount of hours to text the guy back or he has to ask you out by Wednesday for Saturday. We never saw a book that has specific guidelines like this. It was all very general, very therapy oriented, say what you feel, do what you want. They're all very vague. That's not our philosophy.

What do you think is the best form of relationship education?

I think success stories, because I've been married 30 years, so clients come to me and say, I want to have a husband who's crazy about me. And also do's and don'ts, like we say, don't call or text a man first, end everything first.

Do you think that these specifics can be applied to different types of people in different situations?

Yes, because we have clients who are gay, we have clients that are young, old, it's the same thing. The other person has to want you more, has to pursue you. If you're the one reading the rules book, the rules handbook, you are more sensitive and you get hurt easily. So you're the one that needs to do the rules.

Whoever's reading the rules handbook is the one that needs to do the rules. There are some people that are really tough and they don't need guidelines. However, we have clients who are in bed for a week if a relationship doesn't work out. They just can't function. So if that's you, if you're reading the rules handbook, then you're probably the one that gets crushed.

What is one change people could make to have a better life in general?

I would say the biggest thing would be discipline. Discipline your mind, discipline your body, discipline your mouth.You will have a better life. Lack of discipline is probably the biggest problem people have. They may be addicted to social media or TV or drugs or alcohol, whatever it is. You have to put long term goals before short term. 

 

What's the biggest problem with relationships in the modern age?

Everybody's an open book and impulsive. Women go on dates and spill for hours. Bringing mystery and courtship back is what we're trying to do. Also, there are no rules. People are just do and saywhatever they feel like. It's very impulsive and short term.

What kind of reactions do you expect from your readers?

Well, the readers that have contacted us, they find it life changing. They find it really helpful that there's a formula for relationships. When we do consultations with women, I always ask them, did your parents teach you anything about dating? And they say, no. So, they love the fact that there's rules, that they don't have to figure it out themselves.

If you could tell everyone in the world one theme from your book, what would it be?

If you're the type who gets really hurt in relationships, any relationships with men, women, friends, family, let the other person contact you first. So, you're not the needy one or the desperate one or the one getting hurt. If you want something, let it go. And let other people miss you and contact you.